Great post. I find both the original article and your caveat very persuasive. I do think Stella T describes something real in London. A couple of years ago I casually told a close female friend I would find her someone because I thought it would be pushing against an open door (I'd never tried to find a man before). She's conventionally …
Great post. I find both the original article and your caveat very persuasive. I do think Stella T describes something real in London. A couple of years ago I casually told a close female friend I would find her someone because I thought it would be pushing against an open door (I'd never tried to find a man before). She's conventionally beautiful, intelligent and like you has lots of interests men love talking about. I soon discovered how difficult it was. The men I knew who were interested in commitment all seemed to be in relationships. I'd never realised before how uncommon it is for men in their 30s to be single. 29 herself, she was happy to date the men I know in their mid 20s, but those men seemed underwhelmed by her photographs in a way no man 5+ years older than her would be. When I told the men in their 20s and early 30s her age they would say dismissively, "She'll really be looking to settle down fast" in the kind of way they might say "She's moving to the other side of the world next week, anyway, so what's the point?". I didn't get her a single date.
So she was fishing in a genuinely shallow pool of single men at least a bit older than her. But at the same time, she wasn't open to dating men she was likely compatible with if she didn't feel chemistry the first time they met. This was clearly just socially dominant personalities who flirted with a pretty girl instantly. As you say, she was filtering out anyone who didn't have the kind of personality that makes single, promiscuous life for a man very enjoyable and being tied to one woman feel like a highly restrictive diet. She had a lot of sex with these men but no relationships. She dismissed one man I know because a photo made clear he wasn't broad enough in his shoulders. Last year she started dating a great guy she went to school with who is nothing like this and they're now married with a baby on the way and she's clearly never been happier. There are a million articles telling women never to 'settle', but I'm glad she relaxed those standards.
Your point about people coupling up and being removed from the market is a good one - this can make even a minor overall sex difference in a city quite meaningful on the relevant dating market. And the age gap stuff is difficult, as a 31 year old I probably wouldn’t initially consider dating younger guys if I were single because I *would* be looking to settle down quick lol.
“She dismissed one man I know because a photo made clear he wasn't broad enough in his shoulders.” - brutal! Glad she found a great guy :) I think some standards are worth keeping high, but the rest of them can be relaxed without much loss to you or your potential relationship quality. For me, as a tall woman, requiring that a guy be a lot taller than me is one that I think is worth relaxing, whereas someone I can have great conversations with is one where I’d keep the bar high.
I think a lot of people - male and female - struggle to believe that it's possible for love and chemistry and lust to grow for someone they feel meh about at first. They take it for granted that if they don't feel an initial spark with someone then they never will, and say no to second dates accordingly.
I am no naturally wise man about this myself, either. I only know better because I've found myself falling hard for women I initially saw little long-term potential with, but enjoyed the dating and sex enough to keep seeing her and then my feelings really started to change. I've heard it called the "repeat exposure effect". Logan Uri's phrase for this is "Fuck the spark".
What if you DID encounter a guy younger than you who wanted to settle down? Do you think his being in that position would likely come packaged with traits you'd find disqualifyingly unattractive?
"as a 31 year old I probably wouldn’t initially consider dating younger guys if I were single because I would be looking to settle down quick"
Based on my experience, I think that's right. What would be your upper age limit? I think women sometimes either fail to realise how much more attractive they are to a man 10 years older than to a man their age, or they wouldn't consider that much of an age gap unless they're from more traditional countries like Poland or Romania. So they are limited to men their age who mostly either don't want to settle down or already have.
My upper age limit would be mid-late 40s. I also have a lot of friends in their 40s so it wouldn’t feel out of place to date older given my social group. My actual boyfriend is my age, so not saying women have to date older, but I think it often makes a lot of sense and at least being open to it seems worth it!
Great post. I find both the original article and your caveat very persuasive. I do think Stella T describes something real in London. A couple of years ago I casually told a close female friend I would find her someone because I thought it would be pushing against an open door (I'd never tried to find a man before). She's conventionally beautiful, intelligent and like you has lots of interests men love talking about. I soon discovered how difficult it was. The men I knew who were interested in commitment all seemed to be in relationships. I'd never realised before how uncommon it is for men in their 30s to be single. 29 herself, she was happy to date the men I know in their mid 20s, but those men seemed underwhelmed by her photographs in a way no man 5+ years older than her would be. When I told the men in their 20s and early 30s her age they would say dismissively, "She'll really be looking to settle down fast" in the kind of way they might say "She's moving to the other side of the world next week, anyway, so what's the point?". I didn't get her a single date.
So she was fishing in a genuinely shallow pool of single men at least a bit older than her. But at the same time, she wasn't open to dating men she was likely compatible with if she didn't feel chemistry the first time they met. This was clearly just socially dominant personalities who flirted with a pretty girl instantly. As you say, she was filtering out anyone who didn't have the kind of personality that makes single, promiscuous life for a man very enjoyable and being tied to one woman feel like a highly restrictive diet. She had a lot of sex with these men but no relationships. She dismissed one man I know because a photo made clear he wasn't broad enough in his shoulders. Last year she started dating a great guy she went to school with who is nothing like this and they're now married with a baby on the way and she's clearly never been happier. There are a million articles telling women never to 'settle', but I'm glad she relaxed those standards.
Thank you, Tom!
Your point about people coupling up and being removed from the market is a good one - this can make even a minor overall sex difference in a city quite meaningful on the relevant dating market. And the age gap stuff is difficult, as a 31 year old I probably wouldn’t initially consider dating younger guys if I were single because I *would* be looking to settle down quick lol.
“She dismissed one man I know because a photo made clear he wasn't broad enough in his shoulders.” - brutal! Glad she found a great guy :) I think some standards are worth keeping high, but the rest of them can be relaxed without much loss to you or your potential relationship quality. For me, as a tall woman, requiring that a guy be a lot taller than me is one that I think is worth relaxing, whereas someone I can have great conversations with is one where I’d keep the bar high.
I think a lot of people - male and female - struggle to believe that it's possible for love and chemistry and lust to grow for someone they feel meh about at first. They take it for granted that if they don't feel an initial spark with someone then they never will, and say no to second dates accordingly.
I am no naturally wise man about this myself, either. I only know better because I've found myself falling hard for women I initially saw little long-term potential with, but enjoyed the dating and sex enough to keep seeing her and then my feelings really started to change. I've heard it called the "repeat exposure effect". Logan Uri's phrase for this is "Fuck the spark".
What if you DID encounter a guy younger than you who wanted to settle down? Do you think his being in that position would likely come packaged with traits you'd find disqualifyingly unattractive?
"as a 31 year old I probably wouldn’t initially consider dating younger guys if I were single because I would be looking to settle down quick"
Based on my experience, I think that's right. What would be your upper age limit? I think women sometimes either fail to realise how much more attractive they are to a man 10 years older than to a man their age, or they wouldn't consider that much of an age gap unless they're from more traditional countries like Poland or Romania. So they are limited to men their age who mostly either don't want to settle down or already have.
My upper age limit would be mid-late 40s. I also have a lot of friends in their 40s so it wouldn’t feel out of place to date older given my social group. My actual boyfriend is my age, so not saying women have to date older, but I think it often makes a lot of sense and at least being open to it seems worth it!