I think body positivity is sometimes actually mocking. If a woman who isn’t very thin goes on a magazine cover, the respectful dignified thing to do is to emphasize her strong points. Like they would do for anyone.
Body positivity sometimes broadcasts and highlights people’s physical flaws in a way that’s demeaning and calls it body positivity.
Going on and on about body positivity is just not that different from going on and on about fat shaming because they both endorse the idea that a person’s appearance is the most important part of them.
I totally agree - the radical step we want to make is to decrease the focus on appearance as defining of a woman's value not insist that actually *everyone* is gorgeous and *everyone* has an amazing body.
That said, I think there are better and worse beauty ideals and that it's good that we've moved on from seeing the "so skinny you probably don't menstruate" look as aspirational.
There are some out there who use the term body neutrality which I think is one way of expressing this opinion, and another option is focusing on being positive about the functionality of the body rather than it's appearance.
Obesity is an ecological problem. _Some_ people can manage through willpower, but many can't, and shouldn't really be expected to. The extremes of "body positivity" are obviously and comically ridiculous, and everyone knows it. Solutions are tough. I don't think shaming is useful, although less accommodation might help at the margins (maybe?). But overall, a major rethinking of our relationship to food and physical activity is what's needed.
e.g.—When I was a kid, I remember going to a diner with my mom and grandfather. I ordered a big pancakes/eggs/bacon breakfast, and grandpa told me with some amusement that, when he was my age growing up in rural Minnesota, (1) his family went out to eat at a restaurant once per year at the absolute most, and (2) if someone ever ate a breakfast as massive as I was eating, he would have been up at 4 am doing heavy farm work for 5-6 hours first. We still eat like we're a bunch of farm boys doing hard labor, except we all have desk jobs.
Even though I couldn't find fault with the methodology/hygiene of the study, something doesn't sit right with me. Got me thinking about whether one can ever get over selection bias in these types of studies. - all these people, in both control and treatment groups, were folks who were determined enough to sign up for a weeks long program, including attending group session twice a week. Yes, it's still impressive that treatment group performed significantly better than control group. But the real problem is the scalability of this solution, if it needs this level of accountability to have an effect.
On the other hand, individuals should just commit themselves to these types of things that have structure, accoutnability and follow ups. Ultimately, telling people to " have more willpower" doesn't work but the solutions that do work ultimately have to flow through will power, albeit by lowering the bar. This happens to be true of both behavioral and pharmacological interventions.
The past few decades have also seen the emergence of "fat studies" courses at the university level. In my experience, these courses generally discuss body weight through the lens of Theory or Marxism (i.e. as being mostly just a way to enforce social power structures). Every few years, there will be news articles claiming these academic programs are losing popularity, but new ones still seem to keep popping up. I wonder if this might eventually affect society beyond the classroom.
Yes, that lines up with what I’ve heard from the social media influencer class. They’ll be like “there’s always been fat people and there’ll always be fat people” which is of course true, but doesn’t explain the rise in obesity over the past several decades or the strong links to various types of disease and dysfunction.
That was a very good and different take on this emerging phenomenon. Enjoyed it. A leading Bollywood actor in her mid 40s is notorious for spreading "body-positive inspirations". Being chubby by western standards even in her heydays in the film industry , she is now taking up movie roles that glorify obesity. In a recent interview , she challenges "the narrow standards of beauty" and is seen to be emerging as "a beacon of body positivity, challenging stereotypes and inspiring millions with her confidence and self assurance". Separately, a good friend of mine - obese and in her mid thirties, has the hubris to often proclaim that she cares two hoots about what others think ; and loves her husband for accepting her the way she is. The danger in such proclamations is the message conveyed to the younger generation - those who look up to you - especially in a world with a plethora of unhealthy food choices.
I think body positivity is sometimes actually mocking. If a woman who isn’t very thin goes on a magazine cover, the respectful dignified thing to do is to emphasize her strong points. Like they would do for anyone.
Body positivity sometimes broadcasts and highlights people’s physical flaws in a way that’s demeaning and calls it body positivity.
Going on and on about body positivity is just not that different from going on and on about fat shaming because they both endorse the idea that a person’s appearance is the most important part of them.
I don’t think that’s true.
I totally agree - the radical step we want to make is to decrease the focus on appearance as defining of a woman's value not insist that actually *everyone* is gorgeous and *everyone* has an amazing body.
That said, I think there are better and worse beauty ideals and that it's good that we've moved on from seeing the "so skinny you probably don't menstruate" look as aspirational.
There are some out there who use the term body neutrality which I think is one way of expressing this opinion, and another option is focusing on being positive about the functionality of the body rather than it's appearance.
Obesity is an ecological problem. _Some_ people can manage through willpower, but many can't, and shouldn't really be expected to. The extremes of "body positivity" are obviously and comically ridiculous, and everyone knows it. Solutions are tough. I don't think shaming is useful, although less accommodation might help at the margins (maybe?). But overall, a major rethinking of our relationship to food and physical activity is what's needed.
e.g.—When I was a kid, I remember going to a diner with my mom and grandfather. I ordered a big pancakes/eggs/bacon breakfast, and grandpa told me with some amusement that, when he was my age growing up in rural Minnesota, (1) his family went out to eat at a restaurant once per year at the absolute most, and (2) if someone ever ate a breakfast as massive as I was eating, he would have been up at 4 am doing heavy farm work for 5-6 hours first. We still eat like we're a bunch of farm boys doing hard labor, except we all have desk jobs.
Re solutions: The results for mindfulness training for smoking cessation seem encouraging - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376871611002535?via%3Dihub. What are your priors on this type of result generalizing to mindful eating?
Even though I couldn't find fault with the methodology/hygiene of the study, something doesn't sit right with me. Got me thinking about whether one can ever get over selection bias in these types of studies. - all these people, in both control and treatment groups, were folks who were determined enough to sign up for a weeks long program, including attending group session twice a week. Yes, it's still impressive that treatment group performed significantly better than control group. But the real problem is the scalability of this solution, if it needs this level of accountability to have an effect.
On the other hand, individuals should just commit themselves to these types of things that have structure, accoutnability and follow ups. Ultimately, telling people to " have more willpower" doesn't work but the solutions that do work ultimately have to flow through will power, albeit by lowering the bar. This happens to be true of both behavioral and pharmacological interventions.
The past few decades have also seen the emergence of "fat studies" courses at the university level. In my experience, these courses generally discuss body weight through the lens of Theory or Marxism (i.e. as being mostly just a way to enforce social power structures). Every few years, there will be news articles claiming these academic programs are losing popularity, but new ones still seem to keep popping up. I wonder if this might eventually affect society beyond the classroom.
Yes, that lines up with what I’ve heard from the social media influencer class. They’ll be like “there’s always been fat people and there’ll always be fat people” which is of course true, but doesn’t explain the rise in obesity over the past several decades or the strong links to various types of disease and dysfunction.
That was a very good and different take on this emerging phenomenon. Enjoyed it. A leading Bollywood actor in her mid 40s is notorious for spreading "body-positive inspirations". Being chubby by western standards even in her heydays in the film industry , she is now taking up movie roles that glorify obesity. In a recent interview , she challenges "the narrow standards of beauty" and is seen to be emerging as "a beacon of body positivity, challenging stereotypes and inspiring millions with her confidence and self assurance". Separately, a good friend of mine - obese and in her mid thirties, has the hubris to often proclaim that she cares two hoots about what others think ; and loves her husband for accepting her the way she is. The danger in such proclamations is the message conveyed to the younger generation - those who look up to you - especially in a world with a plethora of unhealthy food choices.