I've had many patients who are happily dating or married—and have surprisingly good sex lives— where one or both members of the couple are, to be tactful, not quite the societal ideal of beauty. But it works because they've inevitably bonded over other more important and fundamental things.
I remember a patient once showed me a picture of his wife on his phone during an appointment and he described her as if she was the most beautiful woman in the world (she wasn't), but of course the only thing that actually mattered was that he thought she was.
Yes that is also my experience! I think people assume that only women are “flexible” in how attractive they find their partner when they really love them but it’s true for men too. Bryan Caplan also talks about this when giving advice to men looking for partners - suggesting that you should not overweight looks because looks will fade over time and also because you’ll probably start to find the person you love beautiful anyways
The average American woman has a BMI of 29.8 (and the average American man, 29.4). 30 is considered obese. The idea that a fit person at a healthy weight is only 10% hotter by conventional standards than someone borderline obese strains credulity. Not that hotness is a well-defined, quantifiable value, but still. Going from a 29 BMI to a 24 BMI probably moves just about anyone up at least a decile in relative conventional attractiveness.
Around 40% of adult women in the United States are obese. Going from obese to a "normal" BMI is probably about a 50%-200% increase in hotness. Another 30% are overweight-but-not-obese. Going from overweight-but-not-obese to a normal BMI is somewhere between a 20%-50% increase in hotness. If you are already at a "normal" BMI then changing your diet to a healthy one, exercising to define body shape, dressing well, getting good sleep, and basic skincare can maybe make you 5%-20% hotter.
I agree with you that all of the things you listed, like botox, expensive facials, etc. are probably at most a 10% increase.
Of course, you said as much maybe with "But… I’m not speaking to women who have never thought about their personal style, never worried about their body, never really wore makeup and don’t have a multi-step skin care routine. I’m talking to women who can immediately spot tear-drop breast implants and know what a blepharoplasty is. "
But I think you are overestimating the prevalence of this type of person. I'm sure it applies to you, a decent chunk of your peers, and some of your readers, but I would estimate that only around 10%-20% of American women are in the range of a normal BMI, get plenty of exercise, sleep well, etc.
I was more into this kind of stuff when I was single -- I think there's a hormonal drive to maximize appeal to the opposite sex. But as I age and the things women do to themselves get more grotesque, I've taken a step back. Yes, I'd like to lose that extra 5lb and fit into my pre-baby pants, but do I want to look like one of those pinched, middle-aged lipo women? God no. Nor do I want to look like an instagram filter a la Lauren Sanchez (although it clearly has worked for her...) If you make the right life choices, your partner should love you for more than your looks, anyway.
Obviously you can't say what the meetup group is, but can you hint at what kind of meetup group it is? like does that mean happy hour with coworkers, or a group that preexisted you by years where people from the internet meet up to discuss how they all like transformers.
Haha, yes. I made the group in late 2017 - at the time the Sam Harris pod was in its heyday, and we would meet almost every week to discuss and debate topics covered in the latest episode. It was like a podcast book club. But over time his pod got boring and there was a lot less to debate. He used to have people on who he disagreed with and they'd spend 90% of the time on the topics they disagreed on. Now... he’s more of a typical interviewer. So these days I just choose whatever podcast or other piece of content (article, youtube video etc.) I want to discuss and think people would be into. I made a lot of good friends doing this especially when I was new to the city, but we only meet once a month or so now.
I've had many patients who are happily dating or married—and have surprisingly good sex lives— where one or both members of the couple are, to be tactful, not quite the societal ideal of beauty. But it works because they've inevitably bonded over other more important and fundamental things.
I remember a patient once showed me a picture of his wife on his phone during an appointment and he described her as if she was the most beautiful woman in the world (she wasn't), but of course the only thing that actually mattered was that he thought she was.
Yes that is also my experience! I think people assume that only women are “flexible” in how attractive they find their partner when they really love them but it’s true for men too. Bryan Caplan also talks about this when giving advice to men looking for partners - suggesting that you should not overweight looks because looks will fade over time and also because you’ll probably start to find the person you love beautiful anyways
writing this here cuz idk where else.
It would help if you added a pic for ur substack and if you bought a domain without substack in its name (for twitter purposes)
Thank you, I will do that! Appreciate it
Cmon, you’ve seen my before after pics !
Yes of course, you’re one of the exceptions ❤️ luckily for me (and you) you’ve come a long way
The average American woman has a BMI of 29.8 (and the average American man, 29.4). 30 is considered obese. The idea that a fit person at a healthy weight is only 10% hotter by conventional standards than someone borderline obese strains credulity. Not that hotness is a well-defined, quantifiable value, but still. Going from a 29 BMI to a 24 BMI probably moves just about anyone up at least a decile in relative conventional attractiveness.
Around 40% of adult women in the United States are obese. Going from obese to a "normal" BMI is probably about a 50%-200% increase in hotness. Another 30% are overweight-but-not-obese. Going from overweight-but-not-obese to a normal BMI is somewhere between a 20%-50% increase in hotness. If you are already at a "normal" BMI then changing your diet to a healthy one, exercising to define body shape, dressing well, getting good sleep, and basic skincare can maybe make you 5%-20% hotter.
I agree with you that all of the things you listed, like botox, expensive facials, etc. are probably at most a 10% increase.
Of course, you said as much maybe with "But… I’m not speaking to women who have never thought about their personal style, never worried about their body, never really wore makeup and don’t have a multi-step skin care routine. I’m talking to women who can immediately spot tear-drop breast implants and know what a blepharoplasty is. "
But I think you are overestimating the prevalence of this type of person. I'm sure it applies to you, a decent chunk of your peers, and some of your readers, but I would estimate that only around 10%-20% of American women are in the range of a normal BMI, get plenty of exercise, sleep well, etc.
It’s a bit of an arms race you could all call a truce on.
I was more into this kind of stuff when I was single -- I think there's a hormonal drive to maximize appeal to the opposite sex. But as I age and the things women do to themselves get more grotesque, I've taken a step back. Yes, I'd like to lose that extra 5lb and fit into my pre-baby pants, but do I want to look like one of those pinched, middle-aged lipo women? God no. Nor do I want to look like an instagram filter a la Lauren Sanchez (although it clearly has worked for her...) If you make the right life choices, your partner should love you for more than your looks, anyway.
Obviously you can't say what the meetup group is, but can you hint at what kind of meetup group it is? like does that mean happy hour with coworkers, or a group that preexisted you by years where people from the internet meet up to discuss how they all like transformers.
Haha, yes. I made the group in late 2017 - at the time the Sam Harris pod was in its heyday, and we would meet almost every week to discuss and debate topics covered in the latest episode. It was like a podcast book club. But over time his pod got boring and there was a lot less to debate. He used to have people on who he disagreed with and they'd spend 90% of the time on the topics they disagreed on. Now... he’s more of a typical interviewer. So these days I just choose whatever podcast or other piece of content (article, youtube video etc.) I want to discuss and think people would be into. I made a lot of good friends doing this especially when I was new to the city, but we only meet once a month or so now.